• fduch

    You raise valid concerns, but you’re a bit misguided here.

    1) Just a historical record: Homosexual relations in Russia were legalized full 10 years EARLIER than USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law#Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law#United_States

    The sodomy laws in Russia were struct down soon after the USSR collapse – in 1993.

    The sodomy laws in some USA states were only struct down in 2003. In many states, homosexual relationships were still illegal in 2002.

    2) Homosexual relationships are still legal in Russia.

    The law is about “no homosexual propaganda to children”. A slightly different thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law

    3) The “no homosexual propaganda” laws.

    While these laws reek of the dark ages, the interesting thing is that USA has had those laws long before Russia and some states still has them.


    So, let’s not buck under the USA selective media pressure and blame ALL the countries responsible, not just countries that US government hates right now.

    • 1111

      Persecution means hostility and ill-treatment – it’s irrespective of laws. LGBT people are persecuted in some parts of the US as well, but in Russia this persecution is much more extreme. Please don’t jump to conclusions.

      • fduch

        Wow. Didn’t know you live in Russia.

        >in Russia this persecution is much more extreme

        Much more extreme than what? More extreme than in USA? I guess so. But on the world scale, I think the situation with gay rights in Russia is quite OK (or, alternatively, that the LGBTQI rights situation in the world is much worse than Russia). China? India? Middle east? African countries? There aren’t that many countries where being gay is even legal. There is much more to the world than USA and Russia.

        There’re popular open gays and lesbians on Russian TV and I don’t hear about gay bars being raided by police (police has much more important things to do like, extorting bribes).

        You need to see the bigger picture and decompose human rights problems and gay rights problems.

        Random example:
        Just saw an article titled: “Moscow police shut down May 31 gay rights rally”. Is that true? Absolutely. But that’s not the whole truth.

        The other part of the truth is that for several years Russian people had been trying to gather on the 31st of EVERY month (that had 31 days) as a protest against the violation of the 31st article (hence the dates) of the Russian Constitution (the freedom of gatherings). These gatherings were ALWAYS shut down by police, the people are beaten and jailed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy-31

        So, the police has shut down hundreds of human rights meetings, rallies or protests and also some number of gay rights ones. This is the perspective.

        Actual gay rights issues in Russia are a small “addition” to the huge pile of human rights issues (which affect LGBTQI people too).

        So, you shouldn’t just compare the persecution of Russian gays vs. US gays. You should look at how much worse the gays are treated compared to average person in the country.

        • 1111

          Russia is an important country in the political landscape of the world, which is why people and the media do put focus on Russia. Persecution is persecution regardless of whether there is a worse example for comparison. Not being the worst is not a good defense for doing something wrong. Indeed there are plenty of problems in the USA, Russia, and other countries around the world. If you want me to make a comic about the worst problem you can think of, send me an email and I will see what I can do :)

          • fduch

            >Persecution is persecution regardless of whether there is a worse example for comparison. Not being the worst is not a good defense for doing something wrong.

            I totally agree with you here. Being not worst is a bad defense. That’s why I think that all countries responsible should be blamed (proportionally to their sins).

            The only thing I wanted you to think about is that eradicating LGBTQI rights violations in Russia would improve gay’s rights much less than eradicating human rights violations. This doesn’t mean that the LGBTQI rights violations don’t need to be eradicated. Of course, they do. But there are priorities/proportions like the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs – physiological needs (food, water, warm, rest), then safety needs, then psychological needs and finally self-fulfillment needs.
            Nevertheless, this is all is a moot question. It’s not that the Russian powers policy has much to do with the people.

            Good/Bad, Better/Worse, Equal/Unequal are three different category types. They may form almost arbitrary combinations like “Is equal, but bad, better or worse than inequal, but good?”.

            >If you want me to make a comic about the worst problem you can think of, send me an email and I will see what I can do :)

            I like you comics better as they are. They’re quite neutral and above the world. Hot topics (like this one) have sensitive people from different sides up in arms and I learned to value calmness.

            As for my take on the worst problems… Let me think…
            1) The reality that the physical world has no concept of fairness. People are free-willed and nothing will prevent them from putting themselves into inescapable traps, on both micro and macro scale. World is not zero-sum – anything can be irreparably lost. Some heavens and hells may try to balance that.
            2) General lack of empathy, humbleness and mirrors =)

            Sorry for bothering you with all of this.

          • 1111

            No, thank you for sharing. I think you raise a lot of good points. You have a nice day.

  • poisonedtea

    Russia is a very backwards state. Both on freedom of speech and other freedoms.